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Erikson Urhandel

Paneraitråden

Diskussion i 'Diskussion' startad av Compiss, 10 november 2014.

  1. mårt

    mårt Diamant

    Inlägg:
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    Stockholm
    Hi Jose,

    I feel that it is very telling that you answer this one post and not the other speculations. What it tells though, is perhaps up to someone else. :)

    Anyhow, in your article you take a big leap between 3646 and GPF 2/56. What do we know about the design and manufacturing of the different 6152 models?
     
  2. pereztroika

    pereztroika Plast

    Inlägg:
    6
    I haven't read everything. What were the other speculations?

    Here's a timeline of the Rolex references:
    1936-1939: Ref. 2533
    1940 - 1944: Ref. 3646
    1952/53: Ref. 6152
    1954: Ref. 6154
    1955: Ref. 6152/1

    And these are the Panerai references:
    1956: Mare Nostrum prototype + GPF 2/56

    Here's a picture of a Ref. 6152 caseback. What does it say? REGISTERED DESIGN – MODELE DEPOSE.

    [​IMG]


    Let's have a look at a regular Rolex Oyster watch from the same period. Same wording, same design.

    [​IMG]


    I think this speaks for itself. Btw, I updated the article with some additional info and Rolex documents.

    Some people pointed out, the cushion case was not typical for Rolex. This is absolutely not true. The earliest Rolex Oyster watches from 1926 had a cushion design. Have a look at the watch in the picture below. What do you see? It's only 26mm but the proportions are almost identical.

    [​IMG]


    And here's the oversized version with a diameter of 47mm. This is a digital reconstruction of Ref. 2533 according to the famous picture published in a Rolex retailer catalague from 1935.

    [​IMG]


    The 1935 catalogue. Check the upper right corner.

    [​IMG]


    As mentioned, I updated the article with some relevant information:
    https://perezcope.com/2019/05/27/rolex-panerai-3646-service-invoice-from-1955/



    Cheers, Jose
     
    bjarne.heden, Scipio, Benjamin1910 och 5 andra gillar detta.
  3. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    Good answer. Thank you.
     
    johnz gillar detta.
  4. Charles_

    Charles_ Silver

    Inlägg:
    1.702
    Inte min men jäklar vad tuff PAM507 är. Skulle inte tacka nej till klocka i brons :)

    C33D8C55-24C0-462A-B79E-0705E7994D02.
     
    bjarne.heden, Puryeah, johnz och 6 andra gillar detta.
  5. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    Du gillar Gångreservsindikatorn?
     
  6. Eqn

    Eqn Tantal

    Inlägg:
    528
    :rolleyes:
    85E8FFD1-51D1-4F41-B52B-C6434EC5C95D.
     
    MAV, Videll, azcii och 3 andra gillar detta.
  7. evki

    evki Silver

    Inlägg:
    1.596
    Nobody is questioning that Rolex manufactured the case and movement but it still says Panerai on the dial - since Rolex allowed it this should mean that the watch was not completely their product. You’re basically accusing Panerai of plagiarism and making it sound like a Panerai watch is not much different than a Domino’s Pizza Datejust. Rolex sold parts to Panerai, not complete watches.

    Can you prove that the oversized case of 2533 pre-dates the first Panerai? Who borrowed from whom? :)
     
    Senast ändrad: 10 juni 2019
    oystercase gillar detta.
  8. pereztroika

    pereztroika Plast

    Inlägg:
    6
    I am making it sound like...? Brother, it was Giuseppe Panerai himself who stated Pacciolla's 3646 was a Rolex watch.

    Who told you this? Please read the updated article. You can find Rolex invoices which clearly state that complete watches were sent to Florence.

    How about the invoice for the very first Ref. 2533 sent to Panerai in Florence? Check the date: Oct. 24, 1935.

    [​IMG]


    And here's the invoice for the first 19 stainless steel examples of Ref. 2533. Date: Jun. 13, 1936. 19 complete watches!

    [​IMG]


    Cheers

    Jose
     
    Senast ändrad: 10 juni 2019
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  9. evki

    evki Silver

    Inlägg:
    1.596
    So Rolex developed an oversized watch for the military use at the request from Panerai and set the reference number of 2533. I must have missed the part but how do you know this was the first invoice? You still don’t address the question of why a Rolex watch has Panerai written on the dial and why is Rolex ok with it? The only logical answer is that Rolex never considered these products to be their “own” since they were made-to-order products. Panerai could not call it “a Panerai watch” since Panerai manufactured no watches.

    We have a forum member that has his own trademark, Bolm watches. None of the parts are manufactured by the owner of the trademark but it’s still a Bolm watch and not a Miyota or a “put-Chinese-name-here” watch.
     
    Senast ändrad: 10 juni 2019
    johnz gillar detta.
  10. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    Evki. Come on. :)
     
    BOTL och pereztroika gillar detta.
  11. evki

    evki Silver

    Inlägg:
    1.596
    Just being source-critical ;)
     
  12. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    I do agree with how @pereztroika alludes that there's foul play going on and that feels a bit over the edge. I do also agree with the points he makes. So let's say 1-1 and shake hands. :)
     
    oystercase och johnz gillar detta.
  13. pereztroika

    pereztroika Plast

    Inlägg:
    6
    Totally agree, c'mon buddy ;) Nothing of what you just said is backed by evidence. You are just perpetuating what is being said in Panerai boutiques or is written in offcial Panerai books that are given away for free.

    Anyway, there is a logical explanation for the Radiomir Panerai inscription on the dials. During the fascist period there was push for autarky. A policy was put in place to prepare the country for war by becoming completely independant from the outside world. Italy first, so to say. Buy Italian products was the motto. The Italian dials were most certainly made to disguise the true prevenance of the watches, to be able to sell a foreign product in the first place.

    Cheers, Jose
     
    Gummo, BOTL, johnz och 1 annan gillar detta.
  14. Caravelle33

    Caravelle33 Titan

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    This gives me a problem! I have always said that I am not a Rolex guy and now it turns out that I am.
     
    Senast ändrad: 10 juni 2019
    BOTL, johnz, Cristian och 2 andra gillar detta.
  15. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    Oh shit. Me too.
     
    BOTL och Caravelle33 gillar detta.
  16. Bingoraalf

    Bingoraalf Silver

    Inlägg:
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    Malmö
    Någon som har tips på var man kan få fatt på en OEM mejsel o quick change verktyg?
     
  17. evki

    evki Silver

    Inlägg:
    1.596
    And after the war Rolex just allowed Panerai to sell their watches with Panerai name on it while even the dial was a Rolex product? I totally agree with you that early Panerai watches were for the most part manufactured by Rolex (cases, movements, maybe even dials - like California dials). There are countless examples of pocket- and wristwatches that were manufactured by one company and then sold by another company with their name on the dial. Check out early Cartier watches - JLC marketed identical watches at the same time.

    What’s the big deal??
     
    Senast ändrad: 10 juni 2019
    oystercase gillar detta.
  18. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    Hos @Ernesto
     
    BOTL, metamorfos, Ernesto och 1 annan gillar detta.
  19. Ernesto

    Ernesto Diamant

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    Jag är på semester till 1 juli :p
     
    mårt och metamorfos gillar detta.
  20. kmg

    kmg Guld

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    Glidare... :)
     
    Ernesto gillar detta.
  21. johnz

    johnz Brons

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    903
    Hahaha, touche!
     
    BOTL gillar detta.
  22. azcii

    azcii Platina Premium

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    Damn vad mycket jag missade när jag var offline 24h:bag:
     
  23. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    Stockholm
    Jag gissar att du gjorde bra saker ändå.
     
    azcii gillar detta.
  24. metamorfos

    metamorfos Brons Premium

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    Vet inte om jag kallar alla diskussionerna som hänt de senaste 24h bra. Det är bara ett klockmärke vi pratar om, inte kriget i mellanöstern
     
    Scipio och eeee gillar detta.
  25. mårt

    mårt Diamant

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    Very good point, junior. Make note of it. There are more important things in life. :pompus: :cigar:
     
    eeee gillar detta.
  26. metamorfos

    metamorfos Brons Premium

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    Någon måste ju skapa en ljus framtid när ni faller av pinnen
     
    jistanes och mårt gillar detta.
  27. Puryeah

    Puryeah Tantal

    Inlägg:
    322
    Quick change-verktyg vågar jag inte svara på om de har inne men jag köpte iaf en vanlig mejsel på Krons i fredags.
     
    Bingoraalf gillar detta.
  28. Johan_C

    Johan_C Tantal

    Inlägg:
    723
    Min nya sommar klocka 1033, kunde inte motstå Blå Sunburst !
    Tack @Ernesto för smidig affär och trevlig semester! :)
    5EB93259-DF9E-49AD-984D-CE2BB58EC99C.
     
    Palenkovich, Puryeah, Thunell och 17 andra gillar detta.
  29. Bingoraalf

    Bingoraalf Silver

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    Om inte FedEx tänker snett igen så får jag leverans av en bandsallad till denna
    20190610_200345.

    Håller verkligen tummarna, det blir inte tråkigare än svart alligator
     
    StarMan, k0ltrasten, Palenkovich och 8 andra gillar detta.
  30. Magnusen

    Magnusen Brons

    Inlägg:
    1.100
    Grattis! Blå sunburst, perfekt till sommaren! :)
     
    Johan_C gillar detta.
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