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Den allmänna Paneraitråden

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Ernesto

Ernesto

Patek
2-Faktor
Johan_C skrev:
Min nya sommar klocka 1033, kunde inte motstå Blå Sunburst !
Tack @Ernesto för smidig affär och trevlig semester! :)
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Passar dig perfekt! Tack själv! :)
 
Dalomo

Dalomo

Rolex
2-Faktor
Flödar ju pannor här på K&S för tillfället så vad rekommenderar ni för andra forum om en vill försöka sälja sin 233a?
 
oystercase

oystercase

Cartier
pereztroika skrev:
You do realize that most of what you just wrote is pure speculation. We found an invoice from the OROLOGERIA SVIZZERA which clearly states the watch was a ROLEX watch. This is no longer just an opinion. It's there in black and white, stated by the ultimate authority, the OROLOGERIA SVIZZERA and Giuseppe Panerai.

As for the beginning of my "career', please do not spread unverified rumours about me. Do you know this for a fact or did you read this on the profile of a known charlatan who was hired by the counterfeiter duo Rinaldi/Lombardi to discredit me? A few years ago, I assembled 3 vintage homage watches for myself. Never have I claimed they were anything but homages, nor have I showed them in public. Does this make me a faker? There are a number of celebrated Paneristi who did the same. Are they fakers too?

Also, if I were a world renowned faker, as the other side likes to call me, where are all the fakes I made? Where are all the people I scammed?

Please put yourself in my shoes for a moment. If you had exposed a major counterfeiting gang and they were trying to discredit you on and offline, would you like it if people keep perpetuating those lies? Probably not. Please be more mindful. Thank you.

Cheers, Jose
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Sorry for a long text. Really did not want to go into these murky waters but also didn't feel to leave it unanswered. This is not an opening for an online debate or pie throwing so I won't respond further but hope I make my stand clear. I also beleive that you misinterpreted some of what I wrote, guess it got lost in translation?

I don't think that what I have seen with my own eyes count as "unverified rumors". I actually don't think that the way you started out in the Panerai world is a bad background for later becoming an expert in what is original and not (just like Frank Abagnale) . What I don't like is that you tried to cover it up, it would have been easy to just be open with it. It was also just a minor reflection from my part and I never accused you of being any kind of master faker pushing fake Panerais or scamming people, but making "historical correct" remanufactured spare parts for Panerais is for me the same murky waters as where the so called "faker gang" swims.

Regarding the "known faker gang", again those acted in different times even before originality became a hard-core need in the vintage watch game. They bought parts and semi-finnished watches when they could and tried to make "ok" watches out of it from the unfinished watches and parts they were sitting on. This was before big money hit the scene. Where they fakers? No, but they were reckless with history and originality and so where many many collectors and dealers at those times. This is of course a loss looking back. Right or wrong is not a sharp line but a grey area. We can see exactly the same thing with other antiques, missing or broken parts get replaced and it does not make those fake (they would of course be less valuable than a 100% original) . Everyone was doing shit like this and yes in hindsight they probably crossed the line more than once and it is a problem whe it comes to originality today. They were surely ignorant by today's standards but that is not same as being full out crocked. Then every Italian vintage dealer would be in the same gang. Knowing what we know know and how we look at originality in the watch world today, if someone would be doing this now. It would surely be scamming.

The role Rolex played in the first "Panerai watches' is well known since long and on my behalf it just makes the whole Panerai story more interesting with this strong brand being deeply involved from the beginning in what became Panerai. I have always been a firm believer that the early watches were basically designed and manufactured by Rolex (I don't consider myself an expert in any way) . Actually pretty obvious when you think of the fact that the water proof oyster IS the design of the early Panerais (isn't that why it reads registered design on the back? ). I just say that it does not make the watches Less Panerai and trying to make them into a "Rolex" instead of a Panerai is just playing with words. Why would it not be natural for Panerai to describe such a watch internally as a "Rolex watch" as in the letter you found? It was manufactured by Rolex and used their water proof tech. Especially in the light that Panerai at the time of that letter had made their own design. Aka "Rolex Panerais" and "Panerai Panerais"

I agree that the current Panerai company is more into storytelling than proper history writing and that is of course regrettable and a missed opportunity. I also think that you could have taken better approach than the daily news approach "fakers exposed" "Panerai is not Panerai" etc. etc. It is biased and unballanced. I am sure you can do better. I aslo believe that a different approach from you would have yielded a different response from many Panerai people.

PS. by the way I can assure you that O is not hired by anyone. He make up his own crusades and has been doing that since the beginning of time. Sometimes rigth and sometimes wrong but always the full monty. I don't agree with the way he does it. Simply not civilized. I think your responses to him was also out of line. You should both be ashamed for that.

So as a final note. Keep up the good investigation work. Refrain from "sensation journalistics" and to much speculation without solid evidence and you might reach what you are aiming for.
 
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Puryeah

Puryeah

Panerai
mårt skrev:
Jag tar och slutar tänka på kmg i och ur olika kläder nu. :)

Kan vi byta ämne? Vad har ni för Guilty Pleasures i Paneraiväg. Bild krävs. Cazzomir gills inte.

Jag har 960. Den är inte så farlig, egentligen, men ganska galen för att vara jag.
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Så guilty vet jag inte om jag känner mig men får väl vara 577 då bara för att jag generellt sett har lite svårt för svarta klockor.

Stenhård jävel

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