Mrsheepshooter
Panerai
Ajaj, riktigt dåligt gjort av TimeToWatch.dk... Inte direkt så att jag tänkt göra affärer med honom, med tanke på hans relativt höga prislappar. Men detta utesluter ju honom oavsett... Tråkigt!
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Välkommen till ett uppdaterat Klocksnack.se
Efter ett digert arbete är nu den största uppdateringen av Klocksnack.se någonsin klar att se dagens ljus.
Forumet kommer nu bli ännu snabbare, mer lättanvänt och framför allt fyllt med nya funktioner.Vi har skapat en tråd på diskussionsdelen för feedback och tekniska frågeställningar.
Tack för att ni är med och skapar Skandinaviens bästa klockforum!
/Hook & Leben
VARNING: TimeToWatch.dk
- Trådstartare Bingoraalf
- Start datum
Ny box och plexi då alltså. Kan man fixa nya klockor så borde man kunna fixa ny box om man så måste köpa klockan också för att lösa det.
På rak arm kommer jag att tänka på M.L och JS som har haft problem med timetowatch.dk men finns fler som jag inte kommer på just nu
Mj24. Men kanske var han du menade med ML?
TimeToWatch.dk
Cartier
As usual there are always two sides to a story and we have nothing to hide.
First of all Viktor refused to return the watch right after he received it. This was of course the best solution for all parts but was not accepted. He had cut that out of the mail correspondence in his post here on klocksnack. His own words from the mail 15. April was: "I am not interested in returning the watch since it is hard to find another one". I read this as an acceptance of the watch as it is and with the delivered accessories. He also started using it hence it was a new watch and the accessories was not as he expected it. He was aware of the box fail from day one.
We are not claiming that the box does not diminish the value of the watch - But this is not a limited edition watch but a regular production watch, hence the box is not something that commands e.g a 5.000 DKK premium or diminishes the price by an equal amount. Also it is not as if the watch is missing a box - It is missing the inner pillow as well as the plexi crystal. This is highy regrettable, but not something that cannot be fixed. We have offered to take back the watch at a slightly lower price, since it has been worn for the better part of a month - or a financial compensation matching that of the estimated marketprice for a box. Viktor has declined both, which he is of course also entitled to. We would like to settle the matter to both parties satisfaction, but it seems that Viktor is not willing to settle the matter for anything less than a full refund, which I honestly dont think he is entitled to since the watch has been worn and no longer in same condition as delivered.
We bought the watch from a trusted source who got it directly from Panerai and we are 99 % sure that the error actually lies with the Panerai or the AD and the watch was never supplied with the correct inner pillow or plexi. Why should we change it? Admittedly we were not even aware that the watch should have come with an extra Plexi, as we had previously sold 2 other new PAM372, that did not come with these accessories. To expect a greymarket dealer to know the specifics of every model from every brand and every age, is perhaps asking a bit much? There are thousands of references on the different brands and even more different combinations in terms of accessories depending on what year/series etc a watch is from. We cant know all the specific details - Unfortunately.
Shortform - We acknowledge that the inner pillow of the box is incorrect and that the crystal is missing. For this we have offered a compensation, which Viktor has declined. We have also offered to take it back at a slightly lower price, since the watch and especially the straps has been used which he also declined - Both without suggesting any alternatives solusions.
So for that reason Viktor decided to report a case, which again is regrettable but apparently what he wants. We cannot do anything about this. BUT to show that WE are willing to work on a solution and that we have no ill will towards any of the users participating in this thread, let alone Viktor - We will take back the watch at a full refund, even though we firmly believe that we have already done what we could to resolve it and that Viktor is not actually entitled to a full refund. It's just not worth the hassle and we can just conclude that our days advertising on this forum are over. Judging by this thread there seems to be some animosity towards us, which we quite frankly dont understand - and for that reason we can just conclude that Klocksnack is no longer a forum we wish to advertise on. Viktor has been contacted directly and has been instructed to return the watch for a full refund and we consider the matter closed.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank all the users on Klocksnack for their time and for clicking on our adds. The good thing is that we have had a lot of happy Swedish buyers and still have. We will continiue to do our best to act professional despite we only sell watches as a spare time occupation next to our full time jobs. Spending every evening surfing watches and answering mails has to be fun. We do this because we love watches and not to make a living out if it...
Kind regards
Mads Gjødesen
Timetowatch.DK
First of all Viktor refused to return the watch right after he received it. This was of course the best solution for all parts but was not accepted. He had cut that out of the mail correspondence in his post here on klocksnack. His own words from the mail 15. April was: "I am not interested in returning the watch since it is hard to find another one". I read this as an acceptance of the watch as it is and with the delivered accessories. He also started using it hence it was a new watch and the accessories was not as he expected it. He was aware of the box fail from day one.
We are not claiming that the box does not diminish the value of the watch - But this is not a limited edition watch but a regular production watch, hence the box is not something that commands e.g a 5.000 DKK premium or diminishes the price by an equal amount. Also it is not as if the watch is missing a box - It is missing the inner pillow as well as the plexi crystal. This is highy regrettable, but not something that cannot be fixed. We have offered to take back the watch at a slightly lower price, since it has been worn for the better part of a month - or a financial compensation matching that of the estimated marketprice for a box. Viktor has declined both, which he is of course also entitled to. We would like to settle the matter to both parties satisfaction, but it seems that Viktor is not willing to settle the matter for anything less than a full refund, which I honestly dont think he is entitled to since the watch has been worn and no longer in same condition as delivered.
We bought the watch from a trusted source who got it directly from Panerai and we are 99 % sure that the error actually lies with the Panerai or the AD and the watch was never supplied with the correct inner pillow or plexi. Why should we change it? Admittedly we were not even aware that the watch should have come with an extra Plexi, as we had previously sold 2 other new PAM372, that did not come with these accessories. To expect a greymarket dealer to know the specifics of every model from every brand and every age, is perhaps asking a bit much? There are thousands of references on the different brands and even more different combinations in terms of accessories depending on what year/series etc a watch is from. We cant know all the specific details - Unfortunately.
Shortform - We acknowledge that the inner pillow of the box is incorrect and that the crystal is missing. For this we have offered a compensation, which Viktor has declined. We have also offered to take it back at a slightly lower price, since the watch and especially the straps has been used which he also declined - Both without suggesting any alternatives solusions.
So for that reason Viktor decided to report a case, which again is regrettable but apparently what he wants. We cannot do anything about this. BUT to show that WE are willing to work on a solution and that we have no ill will towards any of the users participating in this thread, let alone Viktor - We will take back the watch at a full refund, even though we firmly believe that we have already done what we could to resolve it and that Viktor is not actually entitled to a full refund. It's just not worth the hassle and we can just conclude that our days advertising on this forum are over. Judging by this thread there seems to be some animosity towards us, which we quite frankly dont understand - and for that reason we can just conclude that Klocksnack is no longer a forum we wish to advertise on. Viktor has been contacted directly and has been instructed to return the watch for a full refund and we consider the matter closed.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank all the users on Klocksnack for their time and for clicking on our adds. The good thing is that we have had a lot of happy Swedish buyers and still have. We will continiue to do our best to act professional despite we only sell watches as a spare time occupation next to our full time jobs. Spending every evening surfing watches and answering mails has to be fun. We do this because we love watches and not to make a living out if it...
Kind regards
Mads Gjødesen
Timetowatch.DK
TimeToWatch.dk
Jag antar att vi är överens om att bli bränd på Skandinaviens största klockentusiastforum kan vara en dålig ide som klockhandlare.
Det skulle vara intressant att veta vilken policy eller tankegång som ligger bakom dina beslut och ditt bemötande? Eller är det bara dagsform som avgör vilken service man kan förvänta sig från dig? Ibland proffs, ibland amatör?
Jag antar att vi är överens om att bli bränd på Skandinaviens största klockentusiastforum kan vara en dålig ide som klockhandlare.
Det skulle vara intressant att veta vilken policy eller tankegång som ligger bakom dina beslut och ditt bemötande? Eller är det bara dagsform som avgör vilken service man kan förvänta sig från dig? Ibland proffs, ibland amatör?
David
Bödeln
Because you sold it.
Yes, it is. But expecting the dealer to fix it, once the information has been made available, is not.
Just as an example I bought a watch from one of the wellknown dealers in San Diego. After a year it was brought to my attention that the hour hand had scratches on it. Without hesitation, the dealer offered to take it back for a full refund, despite the fact that it had been worn regularly. There is good reason this dealer commands a premium, and makes good money on every transaction that does go smoothly, while absorbing the loss of those that do not, resulting in a stellar reputation.
So you're charging professional prices and delivering hobby performance?
So - why should we buy from you instead of an ordinary dealer?
TimeToWatch.dk
Cartier
Buying the watch back is economically hard for me. We sell watches only on commission. I have to find the funds for Viktor in my private pocket since I already paid the previous owner for the watch and he will not take it back. So I can not have to many of these cases before I have to close my business. That was why I tried to find a gentle agreement with Viktor in this case.
Viktor agreed on the terms the watch came in incl. the incorrect accessories and wrote he wanted to keep the watch but changed his mind a month later. I still think this is unfair to letting me pay from this but as mentioned before I do this for fun because I love watches as a collector myself and want to sleep tight at night without angry customers.
/Mads
Viktor agreed on the terms the watch came in incl. the incorrect accessories and wrote he wanted to keep the watch but changed his mind a month later. I still think this is unfair to letting me pay from this but as mentioned before I do this for fun because I love watches as a collector myself and want to sleep tight at night without angry customers.
/Mads
Jonte73
Audemars
Surt TimeToWatch.dk detta luktar inget vidare!
Styr upp rätt grejer och gör rätt för dig eller ta tillbaka varan .
Styr upp rätt grejer och gör rätt för dig eller ta tillbaka varan .
wotan
Rolex
TimeToWatch.dk
Cartier
David
Bödeln
But isn't this where the proceeds of successful deals where you do collect a commission go?
I don't really think it is a question of fair/unfair as far as professional dealers are concerned, it is really just the cost of doing business, regardless how unfair it may seem. That is the harsh reality of maintaining a flawless reputation.
And if the delivered product is not as advertised...? (E.g. Not full set)
Without arguing for one side or the other in this specific case, it sounds to me like you can't decide wether to be a professional or a hobby dealer?
As a professional seller (which you by definition is, from doing business through a company) you must understand that you need take your responsibility in matters like this. Either due to actual fault, or as an act of goodwill.
If you fail to do so, the outcome can be devastating. As you have experienced here today.
TimeToWatch.dk
Cartier
Timetowatch.dk does not advertise in the sense that they pay for putting up selling threads (nobody does). They post as any other user on the sales forum parts. For free, that is.
Small detail, but I felt that I had to clarify it.
And TimeToWatch.dk, you of course decide yourself if you want to stay or not.
Small detail, but I felt that I had to clarify it.
And TimeToWatch.dk, you of course decide yourself if you want to stay or not.
Cryssarn
Rolex
so why not talk to your so trusted source about it then? why should the custom suffer for your lack of knowledge and quality control?
Japp, det var jag.
Then we offer 14 days FULL returnIF the watch is in same condition as delivered
/Mads
The thing is. In the ad and in the conversation with Viktor you stated that the watch was from 2014 but the O-series is from 2012, first fault. The other thing is that you say, that the watch comes with all accessories as new from AD, thats fault number two.
You advertised the watch as the complete set and when Viktor found out that it was not, you started to hassle about it. I don't know if you believed that it was complete and that it was an honest mistake, the least you could have done was to take the watch back without any hassle and maintain a good rep. Instead you started to present solutions that was in your interest and not in your customers interest. It's not that the watch has no value at all now, it's just less more valuable so I can't see how your business would suffer a lot from loosing 4-5000DKK by taking it back and sell it as a non complete set?
You should get back to whom you did the sale for or have a look at the commission contract so these things doesn't happen again. For you and your customers sake.
TimeToWatch.dk
Cartier
I already tried to find the right box for Viktor but without any success. The AD dealer could not solve it and did not have access to other PAM372 boxes. Otherwise I would just have switched Viktors box.
So instead you offer your customer a 1000DKK so he can go out and buy the box himself? When the box isn't possible to buy... How would he benefit from that? A fair market price today with a fullset PAM372 is somewhere between 54-58k SEK and with a non correct box somewhere around 48-50K.. A thousand DKK wouldn't solve the problem as far I can see?
Enligt Romkonventionen om tillämplig lag på avtalsförpliktelser ska, för det fall följande föreligger,
— avtalets ingående har i konsumentens hemvistland föregåtts av särskilt till honom riktat erbjudande eller av reklam, och han har i sagda land företagit de handlingar som från hans sida var nödvändiga för avtalets ingående;
— näringsidkaren eller hans representant mottagit konsumentens beställning i konsumentens hemvistland; eller
— avtalet avser köp av lösa saker och konsumenten har rest från sitt hemvistland till ett annat land där han beställde varan, förutsatt att konsumentens resa hade arrangerats av säljaren i syfte att förmå konsumenten till köpet.
och parterna inte avtalat om annat (art 5 p 3), konsumentens lands lag tillämpas. Alternativt om parterna avtalat om annat, får lagvalet inte beröva konsumenten de skyddande rättigheter som tillkommer honom på grund av tvingande lag i konsumentens hemland (konsumentköplagen).
TimeToWatch.dk
Cartier
I offer 14 days full return if customers are not satisfied according to Danish. I sell PRE-OWNED watches and some issues on condition and missing/failing accessories can occur since the watches are not sold as new from AD's. The PAM372 was also sold as preowned but in mint condition. I also sell a lot of Rolex watches with no or missing manuals/certificates, not having full bracelet, having unfortunate patina on dial, ect ect...
I act according to danish law and offer the return garantee and warranty I have to.
First and foremost, I'm not at all convinced that danish law is applicable here since you are directly advertising to a strictly swedish ad-site. I'm on the contrary quite sure that swedish consumer law is applicable, because of the Rome convention (article 5).
This is not a question of return policy, this is a faulty product since you advertised for something other than what you delivered.
TimeToWatch.dk
Cartier
I did not at ANY point say no to a FULL refund within the first 14 days according to danish law. Viktor wrote specifically that he wanted to keep the watch at 15. april just after it arrived.
I pay commission after 14 days to seller since the return period is over. This is again normal practice. As commission seller you also expect to have your money when the watch is passed over to a new buyer.
/Mads