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Den stora "Vad är rimligt pris för vintageklockan?"-tråden

Diskussion i 'Vintage' startad av JiiWe, 20 maj 2014.

Taggar:
  1. supersu

    supersu Titan

    Inlägg:
    127
    Från:
    Östersund
    Screenshot_20181211-072018_Tradera.
    Isn't 43k maybe a little extreme for a Constellation? I know it's a pie pan and all, a good one at that, but there's no box or certificate. Seems fishy to me. Or am I just stupid?
     
  2. Salesmayne

    Salesmayne Tantal

    Inlägg:
    611
    Från:
    Skåne
    Original skinnbox=original leather case. The price is a bit steep however the bracelet is also 18k and the watch seems to be in good condition. Don’t the 18k head-only examples cost around 17-25k’ish?
     
  3. grodslukarenx

    grodslukarenx Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.059
    Från:
    Skåne, Sverige
    Solid gold Pie-Pan connie with a solid gold bracelet and the original box and crown. Box and papers rarely come with vintage watches. Wether the dial is original or a redial isn't for me to judge, but if it is I think the price is pretty much where it should be? Might be wrong though.
     
  4. supersu

    supersu Titan

    Inlägg:
    127
    Från:
    Östersund
    I guess there's not enough proof it wasn't restored. Maybe all the numbers match, but that type of thing isn't hard to fake. I also have my doubts about the bracelet. Something looks off about it. Relatively ok condition examples go for 20k or less, usually. I'm not sure though, I could (probably) be wrong. In any event, 43k for a watch that doesn't have some sort of cert or original strap is a lot.
     
  5. grodslukarenx

    grodslukarenx Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.059
    Från:
    Skåne, Sverige
    Certificates in vintage watches are pretty uncommon, doesn't at all mean that there is anything fishy about them. Good condition examples have gone for more than 20k, throw a solid gold bracelet on that, as well as an original box that is quite rare as well. The fact that it is still unsold speaks for the price being a bit steep, though.
     
  6. supersu

    supersu Titan

    Inlägg:
    127
    Från:
    Östersund
    An original certificate is not expected, but some sort of authentication certificate from an established watch maker, or better yet, Omega themselves would be helpful.

    I think it would be easier without the bracelet, to be honest. I wouldn't buy it with that bracelet either way.
     
  7. grodslukarenx

    grodslukarenx Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.059
    Från:
    Skåne, Sverige
    I think you'll find that any form of certificate of authenticity is rare in vintage, wether it'd be helpful or not has an obvious answer, but it's still almost never present. Your personal opinion on the bracelet isn't really relevant from a price point of view, since the value of the weight in gold is still added to the price of the rare watch.
     
  8. supersu

    supersu Titan

    Inlägg:
    127
    Från:
    Östersund
    I'm wondering how many people that collect things like this would be interested in having that bracelet added to the price like that. It's hard to tell whether the gold is even real or not without at least being able to test it first. As a rule of thumb, it's generally a bad idea to buy gold online from a rather unknown source.
     
  9. grodslukarenx

    grodslukarenx Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.059
    Från:
    Skåne, Sverige
    1. That’s not what you asked. You asked wether the price of the watch was reasonable or not, which means you have to take into account everything that comes with the watch - watch, box and 18k gold bracelet. The watch is sold by a person who states that he is a proffessional watch- and casemaker and he guarantees the authenticity and originality of the watch. These dials are often redone, but for the sake of the argument we can say it is original.

    2. Why wouldn’t the gold be real? The seller has almost 500 reviews from closed deals and a 5 star rating.

    The watch head only isn’t reasonably prices at 43.000. Would a collector buy it and use the bracelet? Probably not, but that doesn’t make the weight of it any less valuable and should still be added to the total. Since it’s unsold the price probably is too steep for most people, as you say - but depending on the weight of the bracelet it might actually be right considering where they are at in a head only state, I don’t know.
     
  10. supersu

    supersu Titan

    Inlägg:
    127
    Från:
    Östersund
    Ok, if you take my question literally, and assume the watch head is 100% authentic, and the gold is 100% real, yes, the price is not unreasonable.

    The real question is; Why is it being sold like this? If you look at this from the eyes of a collector, they would be buying a ~20k watch at best, with another 23k worth of gold bullion. I just can't understand why the seller would try to bump the value by more than double with a janky bracelet that doesn't match the watch or make any sense to pair with the head. I also highly doubt that's 23k in gold. If it were .999 fine, it would possibly be worth it, but 18kt gold is not expensive by weight. So I guess I'm just looking for the seller's logic in this particular listing. It's not selling not because it's expensive, but because it's unreasonably expensive for what the sum of the parts becomes.

    I don't care how many reviews a Tradera seller has, I don't buy gold unless the seller is certified by a 3rd party, or unless I can stick a drop of nitric acid on there myself. I come from the US, and some pawn shops make a living off selling gold plated or sometimes even gold clad jewelry and passing it off as solid. I've learned my lesson. That's my prerogative though, and should not be taken as gospel. I'm sure there are many trustworthy sellers on Tradera for used gold.
     
  11. ajvar

    ajvar Brons

    Inlägg:
    1.093
    Från:
    Göteborg
    20K for an 18k connie in nice condition?? Sounds like 2015.
    The math here is more like 30k for the watch, 10k for the gold and 3k for the service.
     
    eriksson850, Rozzy och grodslukarenx gillar detta.
  12. grodslukarenx

    grodslukarenx Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.059
    Från:
    Skåne, Sverige
    Please do direct me to a nice condition gold piepan dogleg connie for 20k. We’re talking 30k, maybe more. Also, scrap gold is seldomly 24k, since it’s too soft to work with, 18k is the highest purity available in watch cases, and worth around 300 kr per gram.

    Also - again - wether you’d buy it or not has no bearing on the reasonabilty of the price. I wouldn’t buy a new Rolex in steel for 90k, doesn’t mean they’re not worth that on the market.

    Edit; here are some sold listings on ebay. Pretty sure first one is a redial, and not a piepan - the second one is a de-luxe with a gold dial which is spotty and dirty. The one on Tradera is serviced as well. 30BDEDC1-A829-4B2A-BBF9-D8DBC015D77C.
    78CA0B47-625C-4D00-8808-8765FCE349DC.
     
    Senast ändrad: 11 december 2018
  13. supersu

    supersu Titan

    Inlägg:
    127
    Från:
    Östersund
    I never assumed the gold was 24kt, nor that the gold in the case of the watch is substantial to the price by weight. What I am saying is that the bracelet is 18kt at best, and shouldn't add whatever unreasonable amount the the seller is adding it for.

    If one were to buy this listing, and immediately scrap the bracelet, they would have maybe 4k - 5k sek at best. Seeing that the condition of the bracelet is not great, it does more to hurt the total value than help, which is somewhat balanced out by the weight of the gold. The watch is worth 30k at best, apparently. I stand corrected on that amount. If the service is included in the price, rather than factored in to the value of the watch the way it should be, then we can say it's 3k. My math get's me to 38k, and that's a stretch. It would be a loss to invest in it.

    I'm not trying to start a witch hunt, just gain a perspective as to why the bid STARTS at 43k. Seems like it would have been a better decision to start lower, and set a reserve if necessary. I see no compelling reason for the price start at what it is.
     
  14. grodslukarenx

    grodslukarenx Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.059
    Från:
    Skåne, Sverige
    I agree with you on the reserve thing, but if he wants to guarantee getting 43k without having to pay (a measly) 40kr for a reserve price if the auction fails to meet it setting the starting bid is the only way to go.

    So your real question was wether you could make a profit from buying the watch? Then the answer would probably be no. Is it reasonable? Yeah, it’s not unreasonable at least imo. I’d say the watch itself is worth north of 30k seeing as a redialed non-piepan went för 28.
     
    Lukkan gillar detta.
  15. JohanHLM

    JohanHLM Silver

    Inlägg:
    2.373
    Orkar inte skriva på engelska så @supersu får köra Google translate på detta.

    Jag försökte sälja min nyservade Pie-Pan i 18k för en kort tid sedan här på forumet innan jag beslöt mig för att behålla den.
    https://klocksnack.se/threads/omega-pie-pan-2852-2853-i-18k.100072/

    Det fanns ett visst intresse men bästa budet (fyllebud exkluderat) var 2tkr under annonspriset om jag inte missminner. Personligen tycker jag de tidigare likt min är roligare men jag kan tänka mig att den stora massan vill föredrar en med dogleg. På vissa auktioner har helguldare dragit iväg mer än jag förväntat mig medan de på andra varit ganska svala. Det man kan konstatera är att prisökningen i % på helguldare inte är jämförbar med stålvarianten.

    Mellan 22-25 tkr får nog fortsatt ses som ett rimligt pris på en oservad i ok skick.
     
    URsinne, ConElPueblo och ANALOGUE gillar detta.
  16. ANALOGUE

    ANALOGUE Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.458
    Din är ju magisk! Guldaren passar bättre i det äldre utförandet.
    Stål tycker jag dog legs. Dock måste boetterna vara skarpa som satan annars faller hela klockan totalt. Klockan som initialt diskuterades är för mjuk imho...
     
    JohanHLM och grodslukarenx gillar detta.
  17. Audacion

    Audacion Titan

    Inlägg:
    103
  18. Adams00

    Adams00 Plast

    Inlägg:
    12
    Från:
    Stockholm
    Vad är ett lämpligt pris.
    Vintage Omega Seamaster från ca 1965.
    Gold på stål, linnen dial. Genuintalligator band från Hirsch.
    Orginal krona osv. Inte orginal glas eller band.
    3225909E-2098-4E60-BDB4-4AE851CD43C8.
    IMG_4269.JPG
    IMG_4266.JPG
     
    Senast ändrad: 17 december 2018
    Stroboman gillar detta.
  19. Rozzy

    Rozzy E-3PO

    Inlägg:
    7.856
    Från:
    Stockholm
    Jag tycker 3k är ett rätt ok pris för klockan. Den ser riktig ut men förmodligen fått ny aftermarket krona.
    Klockan är inte pläterad utan guld på stål (gold rolled) vilket är bättre. Jag gissar på ett pris på ca 5-6000kr.
     
    Ariste och Adams00 gillar detta.
  20. Adams00

    Adams00 Plast

    Inlägg:
    12
    Från:
    Stockholm
    Tack för den snabba responsen :)
     
    Rozzy gillar detta.
  21. ConElPueblo

    ConElPueblo Tantal

    Inlägg:
    636
    Oh, it is quite extreme - probably why it hasn't sold.

    The value should be calculated as: base value for bracelet gold content + value for box (close to nothing as it is missing it's insert and there is no guarantee that it came with the watch and it hasn't got the matching papers) + value for a polished, original gold Constellation.

    I'd say that 25K-ish is probably where it is at.

    @grodslukarenx - you mention that the box is quite rare; this I don't agree with. Especially when considering the incomplete nature of it, the value is quite low. You say that the "weight of it (the watch head) should be added to the total" - this seems illogical to me. You can either choose to sell it as a gold commodity or as a collector's piece; not both - in this case the gold Constellation is worth more than the gold content, but the actual gold value is de facto irrelevant. The rarity and condition is what drives the price.
     
    supersu och grodslukarenx gillar detta.
  22. grodslukarenx

    grodslukarenx Guld

    Inlägg:
    3.059
    Från:
    Skåne, Sverige
    I was referring to the weight of the bracelet being added to the cost of the watch head.
    Regarding the box; You are probably way better informed on that value than I am. :)
     
  23. Aurum

    Aurum Jag är så arg, så väldigt arg!

    Inlägg:
    20.524
    25'? Skulle tro det är vad klockan utan länk kan säljas för?
     
    grodslukarenx och ConElPueblo gillar detta.
  24. ConElPueblo

    ConElPueblo Tantal

    Inlägg:
    636
    Precis, dårlig formulering.
     
    Aurum gillar detta.
  25. supersu

    supersu Titan

    Inlägg:
    127
    Från:
    Östersund
    This is the point I was attempting to make, or at least elude to. You have formulated it better than I could :)
     
  26. FreakyLeo

    FreakyLeo Silver Premium

    Inlägg:
    2.269
    Från:
    Göteborg / Trelleborg
    Vad tror ni är rimligt för dessa 3? Inex ”Trattenfynd” med Unitas 6425 17j +15spd amp180 på nästan nytt Kvarsjö Vintage läder, Ricoh Medallion day-date med Ricoh R31 21j -40spd amp270, antagligen servad med markering i boettlocket på nästan nytt Kvarnsjö Premium och en Universal Geneve med Cal1-43 på Speidel äkta ödla? Alla banden är 19mm.

    300kr+1200kr+2000kr, låter det rimligt?

    Tack på förhand

    8CD7A1CF-7081-4563-89C3-0ADC55020631.
     
    Stroboman gillar detta.
  27. Criss Cross

    Criss Cross Diamant

    Inlägg:
    7.277
    Från:
    Stockholm
    De två första låter rimliga, men UGn ska du nog undersöka värdet på. Det är ju ett märke som har stigit rejält de senaste åren. Nu är väl inte denna klocka från märkets glanstid, men jag skulle ändå undersöka saken närmre.
     
    Stroboman, Anders Forsberg och FreakyLeo gillar detta.
  28. hjulmuttern

    hjulmuttern Plast

    Inlägg:
    46
    Senast ändrad: 20 december 2018
  29. Anders Forsberg

    Anders Forsberg Silver

    Inlägg:
    2.424
    Från:
    Malmö
    Håller med @Criss Cross om att det kan vara värt att kolla upp lite snabbt.
    Men jag tror att du är ganska ”on the money” med din gissning.
    Quartz i lite udda boettform tror jag inte är det hetaste heta.
     
    FreakyLeo gillar detta.
  30. Anders Forsberg

    Anders Forsberg Silver

    Inlägg:
    2.424
    Från:
    Malmö
    Bukowskis är duktiga på att ragga budgivare och Suverän är inne i en alldeles otrolig hype.
    Gick en svart för 19-ish för nån vecka sedan.

    Grejen med denna är nog tavlan, som är lite ovanligare och väldigt fin.
    Annars är det ganska ovanligt att de ljusa går för några jättepengar.

    Det sagt så är nog tiden då ”andra Suverän verkar gå för 3-4kkr” för länge sedan förbi. Om de inte är rejält risiga, vill säga.
     
    Rozzy och hjulmuttern gillar detta.
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