• Välkommen till ett uppdaterat Klocksnack.se

    Efter ett digert arbete är nu den största uppdateringen av Klocksnack.se någonsin klar att se dagens ljus.
    Forumet kommer nu bli ännu snabbare, mer lättanvänt och framför allt fyllt med nya funktioner.

    Vi har skapat en tråd på diskussionsdelen för feedback och tekniska frågeställningar.

    Tack för att ni är med och skapar Skandinaviens bästa klockforum!

    /Hook & Leben

Vad ska jag köpa för vintage-tråden. Fråga här!

Donkii

Donkii

Boushh
2-Faktor
Är själv väldigt förtjust i Aquastar Airstar. Missade en för nån vecka sedan med en hårsmån.. Skulle vara perfekt i din samling @frere

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Har lagt ett bud på denna själv..
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Aurum

Aurum

Harsh but fair
2-Faktor
Donkii skrev:
Stowan som Tornet säljer.. Sen har du alla de där Panda historierna från Zodiac, Hamilton, BWC, Tradition.. men de e klart, de är inte lika billiga som de var förr.. :)
Klicka för att se resterande...
De är ju inga riktiga PMH, de är ju bara samtida. DE måste ju dela boett för att det skall räknas.
 
Donkii

Donkii

Boushh
2-Faktor
Aurum skrev:
Neh, de brukar kallas PMH men jag håller inte med. Känns endast som taskig renommésnyltning annars tycker jag.
Klicka för att se resterande...
Läste en intressant grej..
"
Well,..ok. It's basically the same article as Jeff Stein's from OnTheDash (including pictures) so I'm not surprised. Jeff has all the confidence of a five year old that looks at the moon and proclaims it's made of cheese. It looks like cheese, so it must be...Right? To begin with Heuer didn't make one thing when it comes to the watches pictured. The case, dial, hands, movement all come from subcontractors working in the Swiss Watch industry at the time. Heuer ordered them then assembled them. In Jack Heuer's own words, one of the things he hated about watches was the lack of originality due to the fact that everyone purchased their parts from the same companies (a quote of this can be found on the Calibre 11 website). I've not seen one shred of evidence that they made these watches for Zodiac or Clebar. However, there's tons of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence they didn't.

At the time these watches were produced Clebar states it was a division of Zodiac in the Clebar catalog. Clebar's main focus was not simple wrist watches. Their main purpose for existence can best be described here in an excerpt from an ad in Sports Illustrated Magazine circa 1971..."We are the world's largest supplier of stopwatches, chronographs and technical watches with over 40 different models for sports, science, research, time and motion study, broadcasting...all custom made, Swiss quality timepieces." I guess being a division of Zodiac, this would make Zodiac the world's largest,... if this ad is to be believed. However it's more convoluted then that.

The lash up between Zodiac and Clebar may have existed earlier but available printed catalogs (available on the Vintage Zodiacs website), not hearsay, peg it around the mid-fifties. This is just after Zodiac had built and moved into it's new state of the art factory. Covered widely in the Swiss press as among the finest in the Swiss watchmaking industry. Clebar, it should be mentioned was first owned by Ed Trauner and in these Zodiac catalogs of the fifties Ed Trauner's name is listed as the importer/distributor of Zodiac watches. Later catalogs, in the sixties and seventies, list Clebar as a division of Zodiac but retain Trauner (later Trauner & Sons) as the U.S. distributor. Jack Heuer, in his book mentions Trauner when discussing Heuer's merger with Leonidas in 1964. He mentions specifically that Leonidas was the supplier of stopwatches to Trauner and that his understanding of Trauner was that they were a private label company. His main focus at the time of the merger was stop watches and in the U.S. Leonidas was his most "significant" competitor. There's a curious lack of any mention regarding whom Trauner's supplier for wrist chronographs may have been. After the merger, and creation of Heuer Leonidas, Trauner becomes a client of the new company and is mentioned again later in the book when Jack is discussing the declining Swiss market share in the mid 70s. He mentions the disappointment at Clebars declining orders of stopwatches and later their bankruptsy. Again, a curious lack of mention regarding wrist chronographs. He does mention that Trauner is the exclusive importer of Zodiac watches but makes no mention or insinuation that they're supplying wrist chronographs to either company. This is something that I believe would be very significant. In none of the catalogs from this time period is there a stopwatch branded Zodiac. However, there are many chronographs. Note-able is that every Clebar chronograph watch box that I've seen from the sixties and seventies clearly states "Made by the World Famous Zodiac Watch Co."

Also worth noting, at the time the watches pictured above were made, Zodiac was at the height of it's design success. Maybe you've heard of Sea Wolf, Astrographic, their SST (Split Second Timing) line of watches with movements that beat at 36,000 beats per hour. Zodiac, along with a couple other companies whom did so simultaneously, were the first to release these high beat movements. However, none of these watches can be described as derivative of anyone else's design. Also worth mentioning, they were listed among the top six manufacturers of chronometres in Switzerland during the height of the swiss watch making industry which encompassed hundreds of watch making companies. Along with that they were an/the? "Official Watch of the Swiss Federal Railways". A slogan often seen printed on their watch boxes from this time period. Another significant measure of quality was their low rate of returns due to quality control issues which was rated at a whopping 50% less than the national Swiss average.

Unfortunately Zodiac has changed ownership several times since this period and company records seem to have slipped into the great unknown. However, I would like to pose this question: Did Heuer make these rather simple looking chronographs for lowly Zodiac? Under the Zodiac name (not including Clebar) Zodiac offered 15 different models of chronographs in their catalog from 1971 including some of the models shown above which date back to the early sixties. Did Heuer make all 15 different chronos including the Super Sea Wolf triple register chronograph along with all the other chronos offered by Clebar or just these rather generic ones from parts any Swiss watch company could have purchased? One can assume others did purchase these components. It would be hard to believe they were only sold to Heuer. Around this time (1971) Heuer wasn't doing so well and was deeply discounting one of their high end chronographs more than fifty percent with the purchase of a carton of cirgarettes in an attempt to increase sales. Unfortunately, the Home Shopping Network handn't been invented yet. All this while Zodiac was operating out of one of the finest watch factories in Switzerland and enjoying great success. One could assume that if Heuer was supplying Zodiac, "The Worlds Largest Supplier of Chronographs...", they wouldn't need to discount their watches with the purchase of a carton of cigarettes to increase sales.

I pose this theory: Trauner, whom operated a private label company, and not Heuer supplied the watches to one of the nation's largest retail establisments (Sears). After all, who but the "Worlds largest Supplier of stopwatches, chronographs..." could guarantee, supply, and service said items. After all it looks like cheese so it must be...Right? Which brings me to something I forgot to mention, Zodiac/Clebar had their own service center in New York City. How does this make sense? Clearly they're not capable of servicing and or repairing something they're not even qualified to build. Wouldn't Clebar have to send them back to the benevolent Heuer for repairs. Of interest, Heuer mentions Sears when discussing declining stopwatch sales but makes no mention of wrist chronographs in his book. The only proof I've ever heard anyone offer that Heuer made these watches is that "someone once spoke to someone who worked at Heuer in the seventies and they confirmed they made watches for other companies as well". Well, there you have it, someone once spoke to someone and Zodiac once sold a watch made from parts anyone could have purchased. In Jack Heuer's book he talks a bit about the square shaped Manaco. A sales person for the case manufacturer had just shown him a newly patented water resistent sqaure shaped chronograph watch case that hadn't been marketed to anyone yet, at least no one that had placed any orders. Jack signed an exclusivity deal with them so no one else could use it. There's no mention what so ever regarding the same thing for the Carrera. This is something that would be significant given it's iconic stature.

For further discussions on this matter please visit the Breitling Source website for vintage Breitlings and the Vintage Zodiacs website. All is needed is a simple search of "Poor Man's Heuer" at either website. Whatever you do, stay away from those egomaniacs at OnTheDash. You're liable to catch whatever disease it is their spreading and start listing every chronograph you come across as being built by Heuer and a "Poor Man's Heuer" on eBay.
"
 
F

Fille

Breitling
Jag är på jakt efter en klocka i stål och gärna med brun läderrem i prisklassen 2 000 - 4 000 kronor. Föredrar en enkel urtavla utan datum.

Klockan nedan auktioneras ut hos Kaplans i helgen. Jag har tänkt ta en närmare titt på den men är rädd för att den är illa medfaren.


Har ni några tips på var jag kan börja leta någonstans? Och vad är det jag letar efter egentligen?
 
MacW

MacW

Omega
Fille skrev:
Jag är på jakt efter en klocka i stål och gärna med brun läderrem i prisklassen 2 000 - 4 000 kronor. Föredrar en enkel urtavla utan datum.

Klockan nedan auktioneras ut hos Kaplans i helgen. Jag har tänkt ta en närmare titt på den men är rädd för att den är illa medfaren.


Har ni några tips på var jag kan börja leta någonstans? Och vad är det jag letar efter egentligen?
Klicka för att se resterande...
aktionssiter i allmänhet brukar ha många äldre ur, även guld/konsthandlare eller liknande butiker brukar ha äldre ur. Såg några i gbg från omega
 
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